Installing bluestone path

What size gravel do you recommend to use underneath the flagstone as foundation? Some places will call it crusher run, or paver base…. The foundation will be crushed stone and screenings. Any thought on my solution? If using membrane at all.

Fact is, you could probably get away with gluing directly to the pt lumber. But lumber can shrink and swell, even pt lumber, over years. Have you dealt with gophers? Can you recommend best patio choice and method of installation for unstable land and gophers?

But I do communicate with people across the usa and have heard of using chicken wire as an underlayment and as a perimeter. Like an underground fence. Of course peppermint oil, hot sauce, loose tobacco and etc are all things that will help keep the gophers away. Maybe use the peppermint for a month or so to get them away from the area—then build, using the wire underlayment.

I like your recommendations of using screenings over base rock with the screenings also used in the joints. I hate plastic bender board but a lot of the pros use it. Will that work to retain the path and patio? Any suggestions? Also, would you use a weed cloth in between the gravel and the leveling screenings? Weed cloth is used underneath flagstone, usually not to prevent weeds it does NOT prevent weeds anyway but to stabilize the soil in places that have a freeze thaw, like in Pennsylvania—not santa cruz.

In short; just use larger and thicker stones at the edge of your patio or walkway. Any stone at the edge ought to be at least one square foot in surface area. Smaller stones can be used in the center of the patio or walkway, but larger ones for the borders. A river rock edge could also be used. You can also use smaller pieces of flagstone, laid on edge like a a curb stone and buried over halfway into the ground, as an edging. But again, use big enough stones on the border, and no edging will be required.

Follow the above link for more detail on this issue. Properly laid flagstone does not need any edging. It takes a bit of skill…. Attention universe: I would like to travel. There seems to be a lack of flagstone pros in this world. Give me a place to stay for the duration of the project and I can travel to your location—might not cost as much as you think.

Oh—sorry to hear that. I do travel for work, and I do offer professional assistance for DIY hardscape projects, so me paying you a visit is possible. Thanks for sharing all of your expertise, Devine. I completely forgot to use the weed barrier on my project. Will this present a major problem? I sometimes use filter fabric between the soil and gravel—this does nothing at all to prevent weeds, and is considered unnecessary and inessential.

The filter fabric can possibly help minimize future maintenance and can help to stabilize soils which are prone to movement or excessive dampness. Thank you, this answered my question about using weed barrier.

Hi Devin, do you recommend using weed cloth between the stone dust and base rock? If no weed cloth will the stone dust filter down into the base rock layer over time? What do you mean by base rock? I have never once laid landscape fabric between the gravel foundation and the stone dust bedding.

I well compact my sub grade, well compact my gravel base, and I do not worry about transmigration of soils. My older flagstone patios that had a layer of fabric beneath the gravel, are in great condition, still. My newer jobs, from the past 5 years or so that usually forgo the fabric, are also in great condition. Fabric: usually, not so critical. Or surface run-off. Or if the area with have vehicular traffic. Or if there are trees nearby that have aggressive roots—anytime that I wish to give the gravel foundation more stability than is normally called for.

The base rock must be a CA term for crushed rock and stone dust mixture and it compacts quite well. I have a flag stone area in my back Yard. The weeds keep coming up through the sand. I have used different sand and would like to know what to do. There was never a fabric cloth used by the professionals. I have taken the sand out of the seems and have all the weeds removed. What can I do next to ake my area look great again. Re-fill in the cracks between your flagstone with stone dust and if weeds ever grow there again, just pour boiling water on them to kill them.

Weed fabric underneath your flagstone will not help really anyway. Any weeds that can live in sand and that have roots that will penetrate beneath the sand and the gravel, will already have a few inches of root buried and will live in spite of the fabric….

Stone dust is a better material for your flagstone joints than sand, and boiling water will handle weeds. Good luck with your flagstone! Devin, you have some really good information here!

I have been in our home about a year Triangle area, NC , and thought I was being smart and saving money in the Fall when I had a lot of yard leveling done — they had machinery so I had them dig out our sq ft patio area. Has been a nightmare to keep it dry, and been largely having to pump water out whenever it rains.

Also, being told that gravel base vs concrete pad will eventually get sink holes beneath it as water drains through it. Is that right? Dig it out with a steeper slant and remove anything that may be obstructing the downhill flow of surface water.

And let it sit for weeks, if you can. Probably, the soil will simply need to be excavated further, until you hit stable soil. The subsoil, the earth beneath your foundation should be stable and well compacted.

Wet clay is doughy and no amount of tamping will help. Trying to lay gravel on top of damp, doughy clay just does not work. To lay a gravel foundation on top of wet clay, you will have to dig down. About as far as it takes. Might be a foot down. When the soil is starting to get more solid, less spongey, you can then lightly tamp it.

Or let it sit in the sun to dry for a few hours, and then tamp. Lightly is key, with damp clay soil. Tamping it too hard will just make the situation worse. Now take the dryer soil from your excavation and add gravel to it and mix it up a bit. Lay four inches of gravelly soil, then lightly tamp. Your actual gravel foundation should be thicker than usual. By the time you get to the top couple of lifts you should be feeling stable. Step there.

The stability test is what it is all about. The whole thing you are trying to avoid is a spongey foundation. What you are looking for is for it to simply feel nice and sturdy underfoot. Numbers are approximate, you have to do it by feel. As for your last question, well, for my opinion on the matter of gravel foundation versus concrete foundation, I direct you to this post:. Seriously, sink holes? You should also beware of quick sand and icebergs.

Have heart then, for a well built dry stone patio will serve you for decades in good stead. Hey Devine, first of all thanks for all the informative posts! I live in Southern New Mexico where unlike PA we may not have the extreme cold although we do get below the freezing mark , but do get extremely dry heat which has the adverse effect on concrete in which it will expand slightly.

So I am about to lay some flagstone in my front yard which is largely xeriscape, but have a couple of concerns that I was hoping you could help ease. I have seen instances where the stone dust will shift down ending up near the bottom of the slope leaving a mess covering the bottom flagstone and the top flagstone spacing empty. Any way to avoid this? Another issue that concerns me is that in my region we get extremely high winds, which not only carries in a lot of fine sand, but will also move out a lot of the finer materials.

Do you believe that this will this cause any cosmetic or functional issues? Lastly due to my xeriscape yard, in order to remove leaves or other debris I must use a blower to remove from the gravel, and am worried I would find myself constantly refilling the stone dust after maintaining my yard, should this even be a concern?

How steep is the slope? Anmd how much rain do you get? Around here, it rains a lot…and I rarely lay flagstone on a very steep slope anyway. The stone dust stays put.

You should get a prize for stumping me. Email me your address to claim your prize! Hi Devin, I am in pgh pa. Wondering what depth of gravel do we need under the flagstone? We ate planning about sq foot walkway. And it may save our marriage. Approximately 4 inches of gravel beneath the flagstone. If you wish to have me over to help with the project, then you should send me an email and we can discuss the matter.

We would like to install a flagstone patio and was wondering if we could do that right over the sand, or if we have to remove all of the sand uuuugh and put gravel down first? The pool was there for approx. We live in upstate NY where winters are pretty brutal. I just want to do it right.

Thanks in advance. A lot of it. Ants love sand. Sand with bricks or stone atop it is a big flashing neon invitation to ants who go marching a thousand by a thousand and they all go down to the ground, to excavate your patio! You have your flagstone sitting right on sand and then they will undermine you, and within a few years you will have flagstone with big voids under them, and it will be a big big big problem.

Best of luck! If my advice is at all helpful to you, then please share some of my gallery photos on whatever social media you use. Wanted to put flagstones in so I excavated only to about 5 inches and laid 2 to 3 inches of crushed granite with the intention tamping and putting flagstones on top with something like larger crushed granite to fill the large joints.

Before I could get the flagstones on top of the crushed granite base, we received years worth of rain in 2 weeks. Any options other than rip everything out and dig deeper?

Dig down inches deeper then I usually would. Mix it up good. The harder you tamp, the spongier it will become. You just end up vibrating the moisture upwards.

Keep building it up in lifts. First lift or two might be the driest soil you have on hand mixed with gravel. As you go up, lightl;y tamping at each lift,, it should be getting less and less spongy.

After a time, come back and re-tamp, lightly, again. If rain comes in the meantime, you may need to tarp the scene. If you dig deep enough and tamp lightly enough, then you will not have to wait, but it will be solid enough when you get to the top. Okay, fine. This patio would butt right against the house and adjoining, existing concrete patio. Anyway I got mostly through the excavation and my wife asked if I could use the same stone to cover a bit of concrete patio.

So, from what I have read, this can be done, but the base layer for the patio must be really well compacted and aligned. Then screed the whole thing and lay stone using glue or mortar to hold the edges on the concrete.

So my question really is can this be done? Is it wise? Having not seen the concrete pad, nor the stones you are using, I offer you my best take on the situation. Your mileage may vary is what I mean to say. If the stones are cut stones, to uniform thickness, then they can probably just be laid flat on top of the concrete pad. Glue the outer ones and dry lay the inner may work…but if the inner stones have a wobble, even a minor one, you may just want to glue all the flagstones down.

Any exterior masonry adhesive will work. Make sure the patio and the stones are both fairly clean. EVEN BETTER solution, if the cut stones are large enough, and you have enough patience and ability, then you can possibly just lay the larger stones on the outside edge of the patio and lay them dry.

Lay them all dry. A mix of small medium and larger stones on the inner part of the patio, larger stones, ones that are too big to pop up under foot, go along the outer edge. No glue, no edging, no cement. I prefer 1. But, if they are saw cut and the foundation is screeded nice and perfect, then the stone can be made stable underfoot.

Just make sure foundation or bedding material is perfectly smooth, and gently mallet each stone into the bedding material. Stones less that 1 square foot in surface area will be prone to not sitting stable.

Polymer sand between irregular flagstones was a new concept for our installer about seven years ago in Prince Edward County Ontario Canada peninsula in the eastern end of Lake Ontario when we put in our patio. We now have a mess of weeds and polymer sand left in the joints.

We are in the country and weeds are a major problem. From reading your articles I am guessing I will have to remove the polymer sand filler and refill with screenings. My question is how deep should the area be between flagstone before adding the screening. Short of redoing the entire patio which is a last resort, can we rescue the flagstone joints with screenings after removing the remaining sand?

Still, a half inch screenings depth between your flagstones will work better than a half inch bed of poly sand, any day. Poly sand will require a greater depth—and will be more of a headache when it fails.

So just clean out your polymeric sand from between the flagstones as planned, and sweep in screenings and hose down, let it air dry, then top off with more screenings and hose down again. It might be fine, but it might not really succeed so well.

Like I said, an inch deep is better, so you may want to spend some time to manually pull out some of the gravel on the higher spots. Knees pads wear knee pads. Hire a local kid to spend a couple hours doing this simple, tedious task—or just gt into it yourself. Can I add small rocks of my own selection to my polymer-modified sand in between my flagstones? I do not recommend this. First of all, polymeric sand is prone to failing—as described in the above article, and many of the replies. Hose down, the add more stone dust to replace that which has settled.

This method is a bit trickier and may need more maintenance, then the simple stone dust method. Still, it is much better than using polymeric sand for your flagstone joints.

We live in the northeast and had to tear out the old warped and cracked cemented flagstone patio before starting it over. I used the methods you described and just finished leveling all of the stones and have the grit used for leveling swept between the joints. I was going to cement a small barrier wall to keep the screenings from washing away under the stones on this side but was wondering what method you use to finish a slightly raised edge like this?

And the flagstones that come out to the edge, the stones on the edge, are thick—and set very stable. These flagstones at the edge of the patio, the stones touch at the joint. You know what I mean? The joint gets real tight, at the edge. Grit CAN still wash away. And will. In my experience, the grit at the edge needed to be topped off a couple of times, but then stabilized. The owner had not topped them off because…it really caused no problem at all.

Grit was swept in around and on top of the gravel, but a few chucks of gravel were in there too, to kind of slow down the washing away of grit. My way is simple, patient stone placement. Some maintenance will be needed. If you go with cement…. Down the road however, the cement maintenance may end up being more of a headache, then dry stone maintenance. Hey, you chose to go DIY, so it will be a learning experience, way way or another!

Hi Devin, This site is awesome! The patio was professionally built many years ago with a little interlock retaining wall around it, weed cloth, and limestone underneath. I spoke to a very, very experienced mason friend of mine about this and he said it might work and it might not.

In addition to that, one other big question I have is this: I saw another guy on a video who dealt with a a major crack in a concrete slab by using metal lathe to bind the concrete together before putting flagstone on top. If so, could I do it just along the seams or would i put it on the whole square feet? Due to the intense volume of blog comments, calls, emails and texts that I have been receiving, I can walk you through any flagstone or patio repair or installation challenges that you may be facing.

I have an existing concrete cap that is sq feet. Using large Pennsylvania Fieldstone that I bought here in Atlanta area. Originally, we thought about mortaring in joints between stones. Can I go back and top over the mini chip with screenings? Also, I get even better drainage, as water seeps down the mini chip grout lines.

Any advice here? I love Flagstone!!! DIY flagstone consultations. Hi devin, How thick should my base be? GoING to use modified and top off with stone dust to level. I live in PA so you are aware of the climate. Is adding the Portland really necessary? Might create problems. The again, a ratio of one part cement to twelve parts screenings…um, it might be alright. My feelings are that it will A be too rigid and crack.

Or it might semi-solidify in the way that it is intended. IF it actually does that then I certainly foresee problems. My best recommendation is that clients hire me to do maybe a couple hours maintenance once a year—by no means is this nessesary, but I like my work to sparkle. The above quote is from this article. In conclusion, the system that I use, where screenings serve for both under the flagstone as the leveling agent, and for the flagstone joints too, works The cement notion might work alright…idk.

My bet, and I will put money on it, is that the system is much more of a maintenance hassle over the course of years—much like the poly-sand method. Devin, Enjoy reading all your advice. I do get confused with the different materials. Making a square foot area as a walk way. Live in San Jose California. Some rain , rare freeze. It had weed block and 2 inch river rocks in place.

River Rock a little wobbly under foot as a daily path. I removed river Rock and old weed block. I have foot gray flagstone. Gaps are large inches. Was concerned about placing smaller rocks between flagstone- can get messy. I could replace the river rocks between flagstone? The current dirt is quite compacted from the heavy river Rock resting on it, is inches of base gravel good? Sorry for the delayed response!

My software had misidentified your message as spam, so I ignored it. My mistake! Anyway, You have a lot of questions.

You seem to need help, from square one. I could help you with a phone consultation Or I could just direct you to read more of my blog posts. Hi Devin, I have a question for you about screenings. They tried using Techniseal polymeric sand, but it would not set. In some areas it remained spongy and anything heavy or sharp would break through. Is that okay?? Because we have irregular shaped stones, some of the joints are quite large. Can you help, give advice, tell me all my worries are for naught, anything?

Thank you! Site conditions, how wide the joints actually are, how big the joints are in relation to the flagstones, and other site specific factors would have a bearing on that.

Usually, I end up spending a day or so re-fitting the stones and making them look like a skilled flagstone guy did them. If you still need more flagstone or hardscape related advice, you can email me photos and set up a 1 on 1 phone consultation.

Sure wish I had read this 3 years ago before someone convinced me that they could relay my flagstone walk and put material between the stones so it would not be a trip hazard. It was only 1 year and it was falling apart.

Sorry to hear of your flagstone troubles! My recommendation is that you fit them flagstones a bit tighter, 2 inches or so will be alright, and then sweep in stone dust. Flagstone responds much better, to a happy jobsite. Play some music that you love and enjoy your time outdoors. I like your idea of using screening, it would give me exactly the look I want, but: 1. Any thoughts? Screenings getting out and getting into your pool….. First of all, your flagstones should be graded away from the pool already, right?

If not, then that needs to be fixed…but so long as the flagstones are pitched properly, then you just need to do two things: do not overfill the joints with screenings. Hello Devine First like to thank you for all the detailed answers you provide. Thank you. C yet, but I imagine freeze-thaw is a lot less of an issue for you than it is up here in Pennsylvania.

One concern that I do have…. Water would just sit there, in the voids…. Forget the clean gravel. Better yet, pay someone, a landscape designer or a contractor, to come out and offer their own advice. Lay your flagstones pretty tight, build the patio with a good pitch— 2.

Being on a hillside I decided to cement the outer edge on a small retaining block wall. I was going to set the rest of the stone in sand, but after reading your advice I am stumped.

Please advise. Just set your flagstones on stone dust instead of sand. Might have some maintenance issues down the road though….. Best of luck, and I hope that helps! Hi Devin. I was on the lookout for some used flagstone here in Toronto Ontario. A demolition sale has offered some, but of course I would have to remove them myself.

Do you have any experience in removing flagstone, keeping it intact for reuse? Is there any way to tell by a picture if it would be easy or hard?

I dont have any special tools, just the usual stuff. Sure, these flagstones should pop right up for you, with little risk of breakage. Your hard part will be weight. Chances are that only the stones on the edge, the ones at the step, are that thick—and the inner ones thinner.

Would appreciate your input as to whether or not this approach would provide us with a solid patio structure with minimum maintenance over the coming years. I used to work with a guy who laid flagstone like this—a 4 inch bed of compacted screenings, then a 1 inch bed of loose screenings for the leveling.

Devin, very informative site. We have followed your recommendations and we have a great looking bluestone patio various rectangular cut stones. The only problem is the screenings used as the joint filling do tend to displace to the stone surface — painful for bare feet! And untidy. Our joints vary but average half an inch wide and the screenings come to about the same distance from the top of the stone. Patio is only one year old.

Question: will the problem become less as time goes on? One issue was the landscapers were blowing the patio after lawn cutting and that caused screening displacement. But it still occurs naturally though not as bad. Honestly none of my customers have ever complained to me about this…. Yes, over time the joints should stabilize, needing to be topped off less often, and spilling out unto the flagstones surface less often.

I live in Vermont and we get some rain, but the ground is firm and no drainage issues. Curious what your thoughts would be for an appropriate gravel and screenings depth would be. I planned to put a layer of fabric down first. We are looking to use smaller irregular rocks, min 1 foot size. So an update. I dug it out today and encountered quite a bit of sand at inches and below. I went down a total of 12 inches. I plan to get crushed gravel for the base.

Can I reuse this fine sand for a layer above the gravel and do a finer mason sand for the top layer? Hey Devin. Somewhat of a brief question.

The existing patio is graded away from the house. Should i take any measures to ensure proper drainage if i am laying over screening and dust between joints as you recommend?

Also about how thick of a layer do i need under the stone? This is not a quick question…sorry. I removed an above ground pool a couple years ago and have kept the liner lying in place to save the sand that was under the pool for almost 20 years. Would you consider the sand base to be adequate for the patio given that it was in place for so long? My plan is to level the sand and add some sort of gravel for between the flagstone OR what do you think of grass between the flagstone?

Just might have some maintenance in the future. But how deep is the sand? I would not recommend using sand more than a couple inches deep.

You have to decide on how easy you want your patio to be to build…and how good you want it to be. Get rid of the sand and replace with stone dust. Use stone dust in-between the flagstones, as described in the article—and others on my blog. Since your soil has sat undisturbed it will be stable enough you can get away with skipping the gravel…cut more corners than that and your patio will maybe just not stay nicely level.

Your call. Hey Devin, found your blog just in time. We just moved into a year old heritage home and have a flagstone walk and patio for the first time. The previous owner put sand between the joints then, at some point, put polymeric sand over top of that. Needless to say, it failed-but came off in large satisfying strips.

I pressure washed the stone and the great colours were revealed from the dingy dirt for the first time in years. My problem is what to put in between, like many of your readers.

Your work which is awesome have quite tight joints, my flagstone joints are quite far apart. Would the screenings still work with areas over 2 inches? Right now it is a bit of a pain pulling a chair over the patio, because it gets caught in the flagstone. I guess I could always try to tighten the joints. Maintenance is low.

And unlike concrete pavers or brick, bluestone pavers do not require edge constraints. Another pro: Shifting is rarely a problem. If root growth or a frost heave does shift a bluestone paver, repositioning it is relatively easy.

Need to fix a broken water main or run an electric line? No problem. Just pry and temporarily lift the pavers out of the way. Yet another benefit is that, in contrast to concrete, a bluestone walkway will not prevent water from reaching the roots of prized trees or shrubs.

Perhaps best of all is the fact that installing the stones is not difficult. Stake twine along the edges of your planned walkway. Then excavate the walkway area to a depth of six inches always check for location of electric lines and irrigation pipes before proceeding. Run a plate compacter over the excavated path if the soil structure is loose. Fill the path area with stone dust and level with a garden rake. Install steel edging along both edges of the walkway.

How do you bond bluestone to concrete? Again cut out the walkway design in garden ground, fill gravel, layer a sand bed or mortar bed, and start adding the bluestones until you fill the whole walkway. Boost the value of your property by installing this bluestone walkway.

See more ideas about patio stones, blue stone, concrete steps. Massachusetts homeowners looking for a beautiful patio or walkway in natural colors should consider bluestone pavers. You may also opt for a stepping stone style of the walkway. You can also dry lay it or set in in concrete. Set a bluestone slab on top of the mortar and pound it down with a rubber mallet. Before setting the bluestone, establish a guide line along one edge of the walkway.

Position the edging 6 inches from either side of the bluestone slabs and secure with steel stakes. Bluestone paving in concrete and dry laid by: A walkway paved with either bluestone or granite can be shoveled in the winter quite easily, but one must remember that it's virtually impossible to get each and every block set perfectly level with its neighbor. Also called bluestone garden path stone. Creating some visual jazz with a diy bluestone walkway.

Make your own bluestone walkway. At this home in boxborough, ma an old bluestone walkway had come out of level and the stones were breaking apart. For this project we removed the existing bluestone and excavated below.